Eldrad must live

AGH GODDAMMIT WHY ISN'T THERE A TORRENT YET??

Although I've heard it's kind of ridiculous.

Also, re: your poll. I only tip at restaurants (15 percent) because I have my hair cut at home, do not use cabs, and am not going to tip a barista for getting me a muffin out of the display case or whatever (I don't really drink coffee).

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Yeah, I usually don't get coffee either, and while I feel fine tipping if I get a strawberries and cream frappucino or whatever, I do always feel vaguely stupid tipping for having them get me a cookie and a bottle of water. That's part of why I did this, so I can get a feel for how tipping usually works with other people.

And I don't use cabs that often either, but I do on rare occasions (like the other day it was storming cats and dogs when a friend and I got out of a Shakespeare play, and since we'd walked I called us a cab), so I figure it's worth figuring out.

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Also, according to the internet, you should totes tip your cab driver fifteen percent. I just put down ten percent or less because if I only ever occasionally use a cab, I don't really care if my stinginess causes poor service or whatever.

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Also, even if I had need of these services, I'd probably still only tip at restaurants (and only because it's hella customary or whatever), because I am really cheap.

Like, really cheap.

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See, I'm not normally particularly cheap, but with restaurants I'm ESPECIALLY not cheap because I worked as a waiter for a couple of months in England and realized just how hard of a job it is to do well (for the record, I did NOT do it very well, since I have very little confidence when dealing with strange people; I got busted from waiter down to part-time waiter/part-time busboy because I sucked so badly at it), and so I appreciate the skill involved and how important tips are, having cursed customers of my own who didn't tip.

(And actually, tips are more important here in the US than they ever were in England; there we were required by law to be paid minimum wage, and got tips on top of that, whereas here waitstaff can be paid much less than minimum wage with the expectation that they'll make it up in tips. I think minimum wage in the US for waitstaff, last I heard, was less than $3/hr.)

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Also I hear your pain re: torrent not being available. WHYYYYYY

And of course it'll be ridiculous, it's Doctor Who! (But for values of "ridiculous" which also have connotations of "ridiculously awesome.") I just hope for some unexpected naked Jack and some Donna and Sarah Jane awesomeness. (Also of course that, um, the cliffhanger from last week will be resolved to my satisfaction...being purposely vague for folks on my flist who may not have seen last week's ep yet.)

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Well, I'll reserve judgment until there are more comments on this episode's TWoP thread and/or a plot summary on wikipedia (or until I see the episode. wevs.).

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petronia.livejournal.com

Your last should have the option of NONE AT ALL THE MADNESS MUST STOP. Sorry baristas out there but what is next, tipping the person who makes your McDonald's burger? Note for the soft touches among us: just because there is a tip jar doesn't mean you have to put anything in it.

Otherwise, the appropriate amount to tip depends on local mores, so your poll may not be a great guide unless we say where we're from. ^^; In Montreal waiters are taxed under the assumption that they're tipped 10%, which has edged the usual tip upward to 15% of the post-tax bill. In Toronto the usual tip is 15%-20% of the pre-tax bill (in Canada the difference is sizeable). My hairdresser gets exactly 20%. Taxi drivers get an amount close to 10% most easily handed over without resorting to small change, which would probably annoy the guy more than anything else.

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Well, see, I don't mind tipping for a more complex drink, like a Frappucino (I get the non-coffee kind, of course); it seems somewhat involved and like it takes a decent amount of effort (certainly more than putting a burger under a heat lamp for a few seconds). On the other hand, I definitely think that I probably shouldn't tip if all they're doing is putting a cookie on a plate or something like that.

But yeah, tipping mores do vary by region; I have a friend from South Korea who NEVER tips, and I and one of my English friends were HORRIFIED at discovering this. And personally, it seems weird to me that you'd give a bigger tip to your hairdresser than to a restaurant; it seems from what I've seen of midwestern US standards that here it'd be the same for both, or even more likely, the other way around. (I usually tip 20% for haircuts and then feel vaguely like I'm overdoing it, whereas I happily tip 20% at restaurants.)

And I generally tip based on the final total (i.e., counting sales tax), but I don't know about other people. Especially here in Iowa, the sales tax is pretty low (about 5%; in Kansas City, it's about 10%, so tax seems so much cheaper here), so it doesn't seem like too much of a biggie to me. But yeah, I don't think most people take into account how much waiters are taxed; hell, it seems like very few people realize that waiters in the US can and are paid below minimum wage, so I can't imagine waiters' welfare really entering into things a whole lot for Americans as a whole. (We're a rather selfish lot when it comes to service industries, I think.)

But then tipping practices may not just vary by region, but by upbringing and habits; a lot of people don't go to restaurants very often at all, and so may not tip more than say 10-15% when they do go, whereas I go quite regularly (and pretty much always have, my whole life) and usually to the same ones, at which point it becomes imperative to tip at least decently (if you don't want crap service and food). And so I tip a minimum of 20%, up to 25% if the service was extraordinary or somehow above-and-beyond (like a large group or somesuch). Whereas I don't have a regular hairdresser, and my haircut is relatively simple, so it's probably not as imperative for me to tip my hairdresser well as it is for someone who goes every 2-4 weeks, always to the same person, and who depends on said person to cut/dye/straighten/whatever their hair so it doesn't look like ass.

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petronia.livejournal.com

The federal + provincial sales tax here is 15%. ^^;

In a lot of places in Europe the server tip is included as a line in the final bill, and you don't tip beyond it except for extraordinary service (the included amount tends to be fairly generous anyway). In Brazil the service is attentive to the point of obsequiousness everywhere, and no one tips at all (though in touristy areas it's a line on the bill).

Reading your journal further - it was never the custom in Montreal to tip baristas, and the city has always had a vibrant cafe culture. The creep is rather akin to grade inflation, and a lot of people I know bitch about it (part of it being the fast food / coffee divide really isn't that clear; Tim Horton's is a bona-fide national coffee institution but most definitely a fast food joint. And again, why not tip the person who makes your burger and fries?). I'm only referring to takeout/self-serve though, not sit-down service.

...See, while I believe in tipping fairly, I don't believe servers have the right to give you crap food if they don't like their tip - that's unprofessionalism, not to mention holding the customer hostage. That being said I find the revelation that US servers can be paid less than minimal wage nothing short of horrifying. :/

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Not just can, but generally are...a good part of the entire restaurant business is predicated on waitstaff being paid horrifically low wages (considerably lower than minimum wage; I think minimum wage here is a little under $6/hr, and minimum for waitstaff is a little under $3/hr) and being expected to make it up in tips.

I do agree that they don't have the right to give you crap food; however, realistically, it happens, and I'd like to avoid it if possible. (By the same token, retail staff don't have the right to give you horrible service if they don't like you, but it also happens.)

And I think the fast-food/coffee divide is a lot clearer here? I mean, you may have fast-food places with good coffee (Dunkin' Donuts' is supposed to have amazing coffee, for example), but no one would ever call them "coffeeshops," per se, and you wouldn't be expected to tip. Similarly, while coffeeshops may serve food, even something resembling fast food (like sandwiches and stuff), no one would ever class them with, say, McDonald's. And it's strictly in Starbucks and their more independent ilk that tipping is expected.

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petronia.livejournal.com

...The other thing I'm thinking is that if your sales tax is 5% and you tip 20%, then you're paying a bit more than 25% over what shows on the bill. If I tip 20% post-tax, I'd be adding more like 38% to the bill. ^^; This is not so much to say that I have more right to be cheap but that economic theory dictates what's normative/average. Too, lower taxes tend to correspond to lower minimum wage, and vice versa.

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True, that does make a pretty big difference in terms of tip. :o

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bemysty.livejournal.com

I tip at restaurants, delivery boys and for cabs, nothing else. At restaurants, I just tip what makes for the next round sum (like 16 Euro for a 14,80 bill etc.), I always give the cab driver 7,50 Euro as it's always the same distance and it's his fault if he bollocks it up hoping for more money from me. Delivery boys go the same as restaurants, usually, because those can very well spit in my food downstairs and I'd rather have my food as the cook intended it to be =_=

I don't tip for hair cuts, as I'd have to tip myself - I used to tip 2 Euro for the 20 Euro "discount" hair cut at a local hairdresser, but those cuts always ended up looking shitty after two or three days, so I'm back to cutting my own hair.

And tipping baristas? wtf?

Then again - Germany. Better wages etc. A lot of people I know don't tip at all.

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Oh yeah, I totally forgot delivery people; probably because I never get food delivered (like, ever; the last time was when I lived in England, about 5 years ago). I imagine I'd tip about like for restaurants though.

And yeah, I imagine tipping is less important in countries with better wages, so it might happen less. Though I do remember one time I was in Germany (I don't remember where exactly...Heidelberg, I think?) and I had to use the restroom at a McDonald's, and didn't realize I had to tip the restroom attendant (because restroom attendants are something we just don't HAVE here). She glared daggers at me, but I didn't have any change, so there wasn't much I could do...still, I felt bad. D:

Also, why a female attendant in the men's restroom? I mean, really.

But yeah, in the US it's expected to tip baristas. I imagine this is in part because you're usually going to the same one, and folks are frequently in a hurry (since a lot of folks are picking up coffee on the way in to work, or grabbing a quick lunch). So if they don't like you because you're a lousy tipper, they could quite easily take it out on you by taking extra long to make your drink and therefore making you late. (Also I imagine there could be some barista equivalent to waiters spitting in your food, if you're a really lousy tipper.)

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No, we don't waste their time or make them late, just give them decaf. >D

Actually, I've only done this once and ended up feeling terrible afterwards. My husband (who has three BA's and is working on his MPA), however, got tired of one Suit treating him like some imbecilic dropout lowlife, so for several months straight made his four-shot skim latte with decaf, then suddenly put him on regular caffeine again.

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Ahahaha, that's the kind of evil of which I TOTALLY approve. XD

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Oops, that was me. WHY AM I ANONYMOUS???

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I tend to tip well at restaurants, if the service warrants it. I tip my stylist probably about...20%, but seeing as I don't get the world's most complicated haircut, this ends up being about $5.00. I almost never take cabs, so I'm not really sure.

At a coffeeshop, it varies. If I'm just getting a cup of coffee or a muffin or what have you, I throw the change in the jar. If it's Starbucks and I'm getting a gross girlie drink, anywhere from $.50 to $1.00. If it is a real coffee shop with something fancier, I do a minimum of $1.00 per drink (sort of like at a bar).

I don't demand that my customers tip me for small things, but making a perfect cappuccino is a hell of a lot more complicated than making a gin & tonic, so if bartenders get $1.00 per drink for that shit, then baristas should, as well.

The thing that bothers me is when people go into a coffee shop for lunch and get pretty much the same meal that they would at a typical lunch joint, but don't tip because it isn't a "full service restaurant," never mind the fact that their barista prepped their food, plated it, served it, made their drinks, served their drinks, refilled their drinks, and basically did everything a server does and more, except take their order at the table.

As for the person equating tipping baristas with tipping McDonald's employees...riiight.

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Oh, that's another thing I forgot: tipping at bars. I suppose if nothing else, this is illustrating how many opportunities for tipping there are out there.

That tipping continuum for coffeeshop makes sense; and also, yeah, those drinks are more complicated than a lot of mixed drinks, so it does make sense to tip them well for it.

And yes, I see people do the lunch thing and it bothers me as well. Also people who will go to a restaurant, get a full meal, and then tip a single dollar bill. WTF PEOPLE. My dad was like that frequently; we'd go to a nice pizza place, get like two large pizzas for him, me and my stepbrother (plus drinks), running about $25-30, and then my dad would tip $2. It drove me INSANE. Once I started making my own money, I'd usually furtively drop another couple of dollars down on the table as we headed out, especially since it was my favorite pizza restaurant ever and I never wanted it to close (unfortunately it did...RIP Torre's on Wornall, you were awesome, and the hole-in-the-wall in Westport which remains, still carrying your name, just doesn't live up to it).

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Once I started making my own money, I'd usually furtively drop another couple of dollars down on the table as we headed out

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who did this! An ex of mine was a horrible tipper, so I would always leave a little something extra. He actually used to tell me that I tipped people too much, and that on all those overnight shifts at a copy-shop putting together mega-projects for people, he never got tipped. When I pointed out that he was also making anywhere from 2-7 times as much as the average server/barista/bartender, he got snippy.

I even leave tips when I stay at hotel. Nothing huge, but a few dollars.

Yeah, Torre's in Westport just isn't the same.

Oh, and Fidel's, the tobacconist in Westport, has a tip jar. That, to me, is truly WTF.

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Really? Tipping at a tobacconist's just seems weird, unless he hand-rolls every cigarette to order while you wait. XD

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vaulted-eel.livejournal.com

Didn't answer the cab question because I've never been in a cab before. (Hicksville, I lives in it.) And I don't usually get anything more complicated than plain old coffee or tea at actual coffeeshops, so yep, change. Otherwise it's 20% across the board.

THIS IS SORT OF EMBARRASSING, but I have to carry around a little card that lists 15% and 20% of various dollar amounts because I can't do math in my head. XD;;

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Hey, Kalamazoo isn't hicksville! After all, it DOES have pretty much THE medievalist conference in the US (to which I will drag my lazy ass one of these days, I'm sure), which makes it automatically awesome. XD

And yeah, I follow the same strategy you do - 20% across the board, except change at coffeeshops (though there again I do 20% if I use a card).

And I suck at mental math too, but 20% is super-easy for me because 10% is the easiest thing in the world - just take off the last digit and skootch everything over, and then you just double it. So, say your bill is $15.19, then you drop off the last digit so it's $1.51 - 10% - and then double it, so the final tip is $3.02).

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vaulted-eel.livejournal.com

Haha. I'm really more in the outskirts than the actual city of Kalamazoo, though. Just a squeak away from endless fields of corn and cows. ;P (Not that I mind! I like the quiet.)

Oh, but I can't even do THAT. 10% is easy, sure, but once it comes to doubling it (at least if it's not at an easy even number like $1.50 whose "double" I already know) I'm like uhhh... yeah. I'm pretty much dyscalculic. XD;;;

Edited Date: 2008-07-05 11:09 pm (UTC)

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Well, I guess you could round before doubling? Like to $1.50 or $2.00 or whatever? XD;;;

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vaulted-eel.livejournal.com

Yeah, I could. But even then, there aren't that many numbers I automatically know the double of, so... it's just easier for me to look at my card. I really am just mathematically retarded. XD; See, your idea of using 10% and then doubling it would NEVER have occurred to me. Most of the time when I see numbers, it's like my brain goes out for lunch and a drink.

Oh, I was reading a comment you made to someone else, and it sounds like your dad tipped very much like mine does. He's a little better about it now, but back in the day he was always trying to cheat people out of their tips. D: My mom and I would sneak extra bills onto the table when we were about to leave too. (And this was when the service was GOOD. If it was bad, they'd be lucky to get away with no tip. He enjoys yelling. XD;;)

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brandchan.livejournal.com

I watched Who and OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok as for tipping I do 20% for restaurants, because it's easy to figure out the math. One dollar for every 5 on your bill.

Hair cuts I just give $5, I just get a cut, but if I was getting more done I might give more.

I don't ride in cabs often and every time I have it's be frighting, so only 10% for them

And if it's just a coffee shop they just get some change. I have worked for places like that myself and I don't see a reason to tip them big, it's pretty easy work, but when busy it can be crazy so tips can be appreciated.

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ARGH WHY WILL MY DOWNLOAD NOT FINISH, I HATE YOU AZUREUS

Er, yeah, needless to say I am jealous. I imagine I will be posting all OMGWTFBBQ in a few hours though. XD

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supplanter.livejournal.com

Do barristas really also get paid sub-minimum wage? I didn't realize... I'm not in the habit of going to cafes, but when I do I usually just get a drinnk and something out of a case, so I never tipped.

I tip 18% at restuarants, because 18%tip+7%tax=25%, which is easy as long as they show the pre-tax total.

I've only paid for myself at a hairdresser twice, so no idea (probably 15-20%), and taxis are 15%.

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I don't know whether baristas get less and are expected to make it up in tips...from a quick Google, it would appear that Starbucks baristas at least make minimum wage (here's an article (http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary/2006/12/wages_tips_bart.html) with a breakdown of a lot of US tipping service industries and average pay scales). But I do know that restaurant staff are paid below minimum wage (not those who work at fast food places, just those who work at full-service restaurants). Now, it does have the trade-off that you can actually make MORE than minimum wage if your customers like you and your service and so tip well (and especially if you work at a nice restaurant where the food is more expensive, and hence tips are theoretically larger), but the inverse is also true.

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The weird thing about Starbucks is that their starting pay here in MO is in the $7-$7.50 range (which unless you're getting full-time, really is not a livable wage). However, my sister-in-law works at one in LA, and starting pay there is maybe $.50 more per hour, despite the cost of living there being at least twice as high.

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