Musings about Who fandom and haters

[gogmagog]

This comment on doctorwho pretty much sums up my feeling about Who fandom:

I think half the fandom doesn't actually like the show. I guess it's the "Star Wars fans hate Star Wars" phenomenon.

I'm not a good Doctor Who fan. I like it too much.

...SO MUCH WORD. But then, most of the fandoms I've ever been in have been like that; as bad and wanky as Who fandom gets, it will never be as self-destructive as Buffy or even the smaller Veronica Mars fandom (in which there was actually talk of a campaign on LJ to get the show CANCELLED during its final season, because canon wasn't going the way some shipper fans wanted it to).

Honestly, the only Doctor Who episode I've actively disliked was "Fear Her," and that's only because the script was ridiculous (though even it had its moments) and the guest actors were just REALLY BAD (and unfortunately really prominent). I haven't seen any stories from Old Who that I really disliked (though of course quite a few stories had some bits that dragged, overall I've enjoyed every story I've seen; though I do have yet to see some of the infamously bad stories like "Time-Flight" or "The Twin Dilemma").

I guess I just feel that if, for example, I'd disliked every episode of a season of a show, I'd stop watching, y'know? (And I do know a couple of Who fans who got quite tired of the show's direction in season 2 of New Who, and instead of getting wanky about it on the Internet just stopped watching it until it improved in their eyes with season 3.) I mean, it's one thing to stick with a show you used to like a lot for a bit because you hope it'll get better, but seriously, I've seen people who have disliked pretty much every episode of New Who because it's not Old Who, and yet KEEP WATCHING (and then bitching). And that completely puzzles me, because life is too short to spend that much time on something you don't enjoy (but maybe that's just my philosophy).

And the obvious response is that I should take my own advice and just ignore the bitching; and I try to, but frequently it's on public communities/sites and not clearly labeled, so I end up stumbling on it. And honestly, it's not so much that it bothers me (I'm not a "HOW DARE YOU HARSH MY SQUEE" kind of person, really!), it just puzzles me.

Comments

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

Heh, I saw a post on this topic, trying to reject the idea that if you don't like the direction of a show, you should quit the fandom. The OP (sorry, can't recall the link) said blah blah they should be allowed to criticize the show plus people who like sci fi/fantasy just don't have a lot of options so they need to keep watching sci fi/fantasy, even if it has all kinds of writing problems and is possibly offensive on political/feminist/racial/whatever grounds. While I obviously agree that everyone should be free the criticize a show on whatever grounds, maybe it's because I'm an anime/manga fan that it vaguely comes off to me like someone continually complaining about their significant other and how terrible he is, and I'm like 'okay, so what IS your deal-breaker, if all of the things you're complaining about are not it? and if you are not enjoying it, why not just break up already? Even if you've already invested a lot in it, that just means that the time to cash out is now before you can get even deeper into it.' And, after all, unlike a real person, the show is not going to reform just because you don't like what it's doing.

But then again, if you're an anime/manga fan, there are plenty of fish in the sea, I guess.

[yoshitsune.livejournal.com]

Well, I definitely agree that one should be able to criticize, but like you, I don't see the point. And actually, I think the significant other parallel is a good one, since it seems like frequently it IS the lack of an alternative; I've noticed that with people like that, they stay with someone they bitch about because they're afraid they won't be able to find someone else, and I guess it's the same with shows.

But really, I think that's SO not true with sf/fantasy...I mean, this is pretty much one of the best times for sf/fantasy fandoms evar, just because there are so MANY shows and TV series and books and such and they're all quite accessible through the magic of the intarbutt. So I just can't buy that as a good reason to stick with something you hate. The only real reason I can see for staying in a fandom for something you no longer enjoy like that is if you really like the people, and even then it's not THAT difficult to keep friends once you move out of a fandom if they genuinely like you and you both do want to maintain contact (especially on LJ-based fandoms, it's as easy as hitting "friend user").

I guess I see it as a phenomenon almost like those people who write FF7 fanfic having only read plot summaries and looked at fanart; what's the point of being in fandom if you're not a fan of the source material? It's like being an atheist monk, it seems kinda ridiculous and defeats the point. XD

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

I guess with some people they have a tendency to get attached to things, but when I'm at that point... generally I just say 'okay, I'll come back to it when it's finished and read up till the end,' and then go watch/read something that is worthwhile. But seriously, it's like I have SO MUCH stuff to watch/read/listen to, that I can just go and read something else super easily, so why should I bother criticizing something unless it is bad in a super interesting way? But then, I wouldn't consider myself a 'fan,' then, just a 'reader' or 'viewer.'

I guess if you have really specific tastes though? Like you want both fantasy and you want it to have a close m/m relationship so you can slash it or you demand pretty actors or there are certain genres you refuse to watch.

I think that does make sense, but if it's like a whole bunch of people are disgruntled, that means that you do have some compatriots. I mean, I'm in genuinely unpopular and nonexistent fandoms, so I feel all like 'eh, why not try and popularize something you LIKE instead?' Especially since a lot of US TV shows have hiatuses anyway.

LOL, for the community, I suppose. Let's join the monastary just so that we can make brandy with the rest of the monks and enjoy monastic life? XD

[such_heights]

You know, I've sort of been avoiding even reading the link captions on who_daily for just this reason, but I'm glad I clicked here! I completely agree, I feel as though I'm sort of shallow, easily-pleased fan for loving most episodes, or even if they don't tap my inner squee at least enjoying them. It's nice to hear someone outside my friends list being positive, so thank you!

[yoshitsune.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that is part of it...I also frequently, after reading other reviews, sometimes find myself thinking "wow, am I just really undiscriminating for liking that?" Now, admittedly I enjoy things that are not, hmm, the most objectively high-quality things out there (I mean, the other day I picked up Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman on DVD, for crying out loud), but I don't think my taste is THAT off. XD

I think part of it is expectations, too...I generally go in to a Who episode expecting it to be awesome, and it usually delivers (or at least ends up being good). And I think you can see that with the latest couple of episodes - back when Steven Moffat was just one of the better writers for Who, people seemed to enjoy his episodes much more, but now that Blink has given him a deserved reputation for pants-wetting scares AND he's been announced for showrunner, I think people are expecting a lot more from him and finding themselves disappointed.

[superheroine.livejournal.com]

I agree so much with you. If a majority of the season isn't what you're hoping it will be STOP WATCHING. I did that with Smallville. Season seven failed miserably, save for like one episode, so I no longer watch the new episodes.
I love where Who is going personally, but that's probably because I know that in the end it's a television series and it's purely for entertainment. When it stops being so, that means it's time to change the channel.

[yoshitsune.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly! I read an interesting article about that not too long ago (I think it may have been linked on doctorwho, actually), about how people are watching different shows: so one person may be watching The Doctor Loves Rose Show, one person may be watching The Donna Noble Show, and another may be watching The Doctor as Mythic Figure Show. And I understand and sympathize with that! But it just gets silly when you're watching a show that is long-gone - like the people who post to fandomsecrets about how they can't forgive Naruto for killing a pair of gay ninja villains in like the fifth episode, but are still watching it at episode 15 gazillion or whatever it's at now and disliking it because OMG I LOVE MY DEAD GAY EVIL NINJAS. It just seems counterproductive at that point.

And I should probably clarify here, since I didn't do it before, that I'm not advocating just avoiding all criticism, because I think it's frequently valuable and leads to a more nuanced understanding of the show; it's when it turns to nothing BUT criticism that it becomes "well, what are you still doing here?"

And yeah, I've done the same thing with fandoms too...I used to love the early Anita Blake books by Laurell K. Hamilton, which were fun, mildly cheesy paranormal urban fantasies, but around book 10 or so the heroine suddenly started essentially going into heat every twelve hours and having sex with random men (seemingly because the author got a way kinkier sex life with her new hubby), and I got out of that series so fast my head is still spinning.

[garpu.livejournal.com]

Wordy McWord, here. And, hell, I've been known to rewatch Time Flight or the Twin Dilemma. ;)

[yoshitsune.livejournal.com]

I have to admit The Two Doctors is a favorite of mine, and I've enjoyed other quote-unquote dire stories such as The Visitation and The Web Planet. In the new series, I quite enjoyed the much-loathed Slitheen two-parter in S1 and the Dalek two-parter in S3, and thought "Love and Monsters" was brilliant (though even I had to admit that the ending WAS just a little disturbing).

[garpu.livejournal.com]

Yah. "The Web Planet" was at the edge of my tolerance, but it wouldn't have been a bad story for the special effects, the bad acting on the aliens' parts, and...

[spikewriter]

I guess I just feel that if, for example, I'd disliked every episode of a season of a show, I'd stop watching, y'know?

This indicates that you are a clearly sane and intelligent person. What are you doing in fandom? </ joke>

Seriously, well said. It's not just Who but so many fandoms I've seen -- and you're right that life is too short to spend that much time on something you don't enjoy unless you're being paid copious amounts of money to deal with it. And even then, there comes a point.

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

Damn straight.

That's not to say that I'm never critical-- I am-- but I just prefer to concentrate on the parts of the show that I enjoy (which is the vast majority of it). I think that some people think that RTD personally owes them exactly what they have in their minds, and if he doesn't deliver, then they feel betrayed.

I don't think that we should turn off the critical aspect of our minds by any means (I personally really enjoy analysing the show in terms of how it represents gender/race/sexuality etc), but I just don't get that some people really seem to hate everything, yet they continue to invest their energy in it.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Doctor Who is different from most other fandoms (the closest analogue is superhero comics) because rather than being a work created by one single creative team that will be get cancelled when they get fed up with it it's an open-ended work which has traditionally had regular complete changes in creative team and wide shifts in style and genre between different creators. Hence people who object to things that the current creators are doing will often still keep watching it because they hope it'll get better again once the next creative team takes over and because they're scared to stop watching until that point in case they miss out on vital plot continuity stuff.

[letmypidgeonsgo.livejournal.com]

oh. my. god. this is soooo true! i'm new to dw fandom but picked up on this phenomenon immediately...cos we have the same thing in harry potter fandom - but, i think, on an even bigger/angrier scale. i can't tell you how many people hated book 6 with such a violent passion but stuck around through book 7 just to spend time criticizing what it had 'become' and bashing jkr as some sort of hack.

i really hope these attitudes don't drive me from dw the way they did from hp!